[at-l] special trees

Pete Randrup hardhead at 1956.usna.com
Sat Apr 14 00:37:56 CDT 2007


Ok, that might explain how the first bend was established
in the 'marker' tree.  Say it is so . . . how did the second
bend (erecting the remainder of the truck) take place.

Perhaps the marker makers were government workers.
They sat around for a couple of years to insure that
first bend took hold.  Their work to erect the truck after
establishing the horizontal portion would be a harder
trick in as much as the trunk would have gained stature
in size.

What say you?


DewDrop
=============================
On Apr 13, 2007, at 18:17, Janie wrote:

> I grew up in Georgia and I've always known, from my great grandfather  
> on, about the trail marking trees in North Georgia (as seen on  
> trailtrees.com).  Saplings were "bent" with a rock (guess a heavy one  
> at that) and tied to the tree with a rope or similar material so the  
> tree would grow pointing the way for future generations. Although this  
> does, naturally, occur in nature, at least in my part of USA, the  
> mature trail-marking trees are there for a specific area.  It's also  
> fun looking for them, wondering about when they were first used to  
> mark the way somewhere.
>
> JanieK aka Cohutta
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: at-l-request at backcountry.net
>   To: at-l at backcountry.net
>   Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 1:00 PM
>   Subject: at-l Digest, Vol 42, Issue 13
>
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>   Today's Topics:
>
>      1. Backcountry Caretakers Wanted for AMC employment this summer.
>         (Casey Horrigan)
>      2. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Sanne aka Ready)
>      3. Suggestions please -- pillow for Marmont Bag . . . .
>         (Pete Randrup)
>      4. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Carla & Dave Hicks)
>      5. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Jim Bullard)
>      6. Re: "Special" AT trees... (pudscrawler at aol.com)
>      7. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Jim Bullard)
>      8. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Felix J)
>      9. "Special" AT trees... (GAFenn at aol.com)
>     10. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Jim Bullard)
>     11. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Pete Randrup)
>     12. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Lilla Thompson)
>     13. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Jim Bullard)
>     14. Hickory (Felix J)
>     15. Re: Hickory (Sloetoe)
>     16. Re: Hickory (Kent Gardam)
>
>
>    
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   Message: 1
>   Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:10:06 -0400
>   From: "Casey Horrigan" <newcasey at gmail.com>
>   Subject: [at-l] Backcountry Caretakers Wanted for AMC employment this
>   summer.
>   To: at-l at backcountry.net
>   Message-ID:
>   <c0a6b45a0704121010w4f1cbaddpdc7d1a5d9f75342c at mail.gmail.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>   Hey everyone.
>
>   One of my first tasks as the new Backcountry Field Coordinator this
>   summer is to help finish hiring for the upcoming Caretaker season.
>   Currently there are two positions open to fill, and currently we do
>   not have a very big applicant pool of qualified or experienced
>   candidates. If you would be interested in working as a Backcountry
>   Caretaker and would like to apply for a position, please email me or
>   fill out a seasonal application form at:
>
>   AMC Seasonal Employment:
>   www.outdoors.org/employment
>
>   Please note that this is for managing a Backcountry Campsite/Shelter
>   with a focus on backcountry resource management, public education,  
> and
>   trail/campsite rehabilitation. This is not a hut job nor is it a
>   hospitality position. The season starts on May 30 and goes through
>   September 10, with a possibility of continued employment until end of
>   September. We are currently only looking for applicatants who's
>   availability matches that.
>
>   Here is the job description, please contact me if you have any  
> questions:
>
>   AMC Backcountry Campsite & Shelter Caretaker/Rotator
>
>   Summary:
>
>   In cooperation with the White Mountain National Forest and the State
>   of Maine, the AMC places caretakers at the most heavily used
>   backcountry shelters and tentsites in the White and Mahoosuc
>   Mountains. In 2006 the following nine of the fourteen sites  
> maintained
>   by the AMC will be staffed with a caretaker: Kinsman Pond, Liberty
>   Springs, Garfield Ridge, 13 Falls, Guyot, Ethan Pond, Nauman, Imp,  
> and
>   Speck Pond. Most sites are on or near the Appalachian Trail.
>
>   Caretakers are placed on site as a result of a site's popularity and
>   resource sensitivity to recreational impacts. Staffed sites see
>   between 1,000 and 2,200 overnight visitors in the summer months with
>   system wide use averaging 14,000 visitors. Caretakers are placed on
>   site to provide exemplary resource protection and public service,
>   which is accomplished through information and education, campsite
>   management and rehabilitation, trail maintenance, human waste
>   management, and search and rescue.
>
>   Permanent caretakers stay on site for 10 or 11 days at a time  
> followed
>   by 3 or 4 days off. Home is a 10 x 12 foot canvas wall tent with all
>   tools, supplies, and equipment provided. Rotator positions cover  
> three
>   sites when the regular caretakers are on days off, traveling from
>   location to location. Reporting to the Shelter Supervisor, the  
> Shelter
>   Caretaker's responsibilities include but are not limited to:
>
>   - Provide information and education to trail and campsite users
>   - Perform campsite and shelter maintenance, rehabilitation, and  
> supervision
>   - Maintain nearby trails
>   - Maintain human waste composting system
>   - Collect overnight fees from users and post daily weather forecast
>   - Generate daily use and work reports, and year end report
>   - Protect water supply
>   - Supervise and lead volunteers as needed
>   - Address special problems as they arise at site
>   - Promote Leave No Trace ethics
>
>   Required skills:
>
>   - Strong commitment to resource protection and public service
>   - Emotional maturity and self motivation
>   - Ability to work and live alone in remote setting with minimal  
> supervision
>   - Excellent education and interpersonal skills and ability to
>   communicate with diverse groups of hikers
>   - Extensive backpacking experience and ability to carry heavy loads
>   long distances over rugged terrain
>   - Strong commitment to backcountry stewardship and Leave No Trace  
> ethics (over)
>
>   Desired skills:
>
>   - Knowledge of AMC and White Mountains
>   - Wilderness First Aid certification
>   - Trail work experience
>   - Public service experience
>   - Education experience
>
>
>   Season:
>
>   Summer: Third week of May through August or late September
>   Fall: Mid-August through late September
>
>   --
>   Blog: www.ForestAndCrag.com
>   Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/newcasey
>
>   "One may have a blazing hearth in one's soul, and yet no one ever
>   comes to sit by it." - Vincent van Gogh
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 2
>   Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:32:23 -0700 (PDT)
>   From: Sanne aka Ready <readyhiker at yahoo.com>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   To: Walt Daniels <wdlists at optonline.net>, 'AT-L listserv'
>   <at-l at backcountry.net>
>   Message-ID: <338258.85799.qm at web32613.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>   I don't recall my source for this, but I recall
>   being told that (especially in the NY-CT area)
>   farmers used this practice to indicate the
>   boundaries of their lands. Cheaper than fences I
>   guess. Whether it's a practice learned from
>   Native Americans or carried over from the "Old
>   Country," I do not know.
>
>   Ready
>
>   --- Walt Daniels <wdlists at optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>  Maybe the north is different but I see many
>> such trees, frequently under 6
>> inches, so clearly not very old and unlikely to
>> be caused by Native
>> Americans.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: at-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>> [mailto:at-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On
>> Behalf Of Navigator
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:42 PM
>> To: 'Linda Patton'; 'AT-L listserv'
>> Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>>
>> That's very interesting. I've seen many trees
>> like that along trails and
>> noted it in my notes, but didn't know why they
>> were bent so oddly ...
>> typically pines but sometimes cypresses. Nice
>> to know there is a story
>> behind it! I have an opportunity next month to
>> take a hike with a Seminole
>> herbalist down on the Big Cypress Reservation
>> and will make a point of
>> asking about the trees.
>>
>> Cheers, Navigator
>>
>> www.floridahikes.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: at-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>> [mailto:at-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On
>> Behalf Of Linda Patton
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:01 PM
>> To: AT-L listserv
>> Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>>
>> Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting
>> newspaper articles.  Here's one,
>> "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
>>
>>
>    
> http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/ 
> 166713.shtml
>>
>>     ~~ eArThworm
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 10:44 PM
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>>
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>
>
>    
> _______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
>   Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast
>   with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
>   http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 3
>   Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 18:55:19 -0400
>   From: Pete Randrup <hardhead at 1956.usna.com>
>   Subject: [at-l] Suggestions please -- pillow for Marmont Bag . . . .
>   To: Appalachian Trail list 'AT-L <at-l at backcountry.net>
>   Message-ID: <033e4b872785dba114732853eebc943e at 1956.usna.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>   I've messed around with a good pillow for my bag-time,
>   but haven't zeroed in on a sat one yet.
>
>   Any suggestions, direct or via list.
>
>
>   DewDrop
>   Baltimore
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 4
>   Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:31:20 -0400
>   From: "Carla & Dave Hicks" <daveh at psknet.com>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   To: "Linda Patton" <lpatton at mailer.fsu.edu>, "AT-L listserv"
>   <at-l at backcountry.net>
>   Message-ID: <009b01c77d63$9a3a3a10$2e01a8c0 at DELLB110>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>   I'm not saying that humans, native or otherwise, didn't "make" such  
> trees.  In
>   fact, it make sense that they did -- to mark things.
>
>   However, to say that nature could not do it is contrary to my  
> experience.
>
>   I have seen far younger trees in such formations.  I have seen  
> spring poles
>   (made by deadfalls, whole trees, or just tops) survive in a  
> bent/arched over
>   form.  Either the main leader turns back upwards, or a branch  
> becomes the
>   leader.  After some time, the deadfall rots away and strangely  
> formed younger
>   tree remains.  In the north snow can do it.
>
>   As far south as PA, deer eat the tops out of trees (or just the  
> terminal buds
>   of the leader), often at some height off the ground -- while  
> standing on
>   packed snow.  Even farther south the leader, or its terminal bud,  
> can be
>   damaged by insect, wind, etc.  Again a strangely shaped tree can  
> result.  This
>   time it can rise straight up for some distant, make a right angle  
> turn to the
>   horizontal, run horizontally for a distance, and then make another  
> right angle
>   turn back to the vertical.  I have cut some of these only inches in  
> diameter
>   to make walking sticks.
>
>   Chainsaw
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Linda Patton" <lpatton at mailer.fsu.edu>
>   To: "AT-L listserv" <at-l at backcountry.net>
>   Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:00 PM
>   Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>
>
>   Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting newspaper articles.  Here's  
> one,
>   "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
>
>    
> http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/ 
> 166713.shtml
>
>   ~~ eArThworm
>   _______________________________________________
>   AT-L Mailing List.
>
>   Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>
>   http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
>
>   --
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>   Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756 - Release Date:  
> 4/10/2007 10:44
>   PM
>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 5
>   Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:17:40 -0400
>   From: "Jim Bullard" <jim.bullard at gmail.com>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   To: at-l <at-l at backcountry.net>
>   Message-ID:
>   <f699b7710704121817t2147b792i6ca24d15e96b51c9 at mail.gmail.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>   RE: The theory that the deformations were the result of Native
>   American 'trail marking'.
>
>   The theory suggests that it was the Cherokees who marked their trails
>   in this way. The removal of the Cherokees from that area to Oklahoma
>   occurred 169 years ago. That means that the affected trees would have
>   to be at least 175+ years old to have been large enough saplings for
>   such modification. Has anyone checked to see if these trees are that
>   old?
>
>   On 4/12/07, Carla & Dave Hicks <daveh at psknet.com> wrote:
>> I'm not saying that humans, native or otherwise, didn't "make" such  
>> trees.  In
>> fact, it make sense that they did -- to mark things.
>>
>> However, to say that nature could not do it is contrary to my  
>> experience.
>>
>> I have seen far younger trees in such formations.  I have seen spring  
>> poles
>> (made by deadfalls, whole trees, or just tops) survive in a  
>> bent/arched over
>> form.  Either the main leader turns back upwards, or a branch becomes  
>> the
>> leader.  After some time, the deadfall rots away and strangely formed  
>> younger
>> tree remains.  In the north snow can do it.
>>
>> As far south as PA, deer eat the tops out of trees (or just the  
>> terminal buds
>> of the leader), often at some height off the ground -- while standing  
>> on
>> packed snow.  Even farther south the leader, or its terminal bud, can  
>> be
>> damaged by insect, wind, etc.  Again a strangely shaped tree can  
>> result.  This
>> time it can rise straight up for some distant, make a right angle  
>> turn to the
>> horizontal, run horizontally for a distance, and then make another  
>> right angle
>> turn back to the vertical.  I have cut some of these only inches in  
>> diameter
>> to make walking sticks.
>>
>> Chainsaw
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Linda Patton" <lpatton at mailer.fsu.edu>
>> To: "AT-L listserv" <at-l at backcountry.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:00 PM
>> Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>>
>>
>> Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting newspaper articles.  Here's  
>> one,
>> "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
>>
>> http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/ 
>> 166713.shtml
>>
>> ~~ eArThworm
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>
>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756 - Release Date:  
>> 4/10/2007 10:44
>> PM
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>
>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>
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>>
>
>
>   --
>   Jim Bullard
>   http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 6
>   Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:36:01 -0400
>   From: pudscrawler at aol.com
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   To: jim.bullard at gmail.com, at-l at backcountry.net
>   Message-ID: <8C94B833A41A465-9D8-12DB at MBLK-M01.sysops.aol.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>   I don't buy the idea that the trees were deformed intentionally by  
> human hands.  Even if I did though, it seems to me that a primary  
> source of information would be the Cherokee themselves.  Many eluded  
> the US soldiers who "helped" them to their new homes in Oklahoma.   
> Their descendants are everywhere, but, as a tribe, they are located on  
> the Cherokee reservation at Cherokee, North Carolina.  They are very  
> careful to record and preserve their history.  Surely such a practice  
> as bending tree growth for markers would be common knowledge among  
> them.  Lawdy, lawdy, why not just ask?
>
>   Sawnie
>   (Kinnickinic)
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: jim.bullard at gmail.com
>   To: at-l at backcountry.net
>   Sent: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 9:17 PM
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>
>
>   RE: The theory that the deformations were the result of Native
>   American 'trail marking'.
>
>   The theory suggests that it was the Cherokees who marked their trails
>   in this way. The removal of the Cherokees from that area to Oklahoma
>   occurred 169 years ago. That means that the affected trees would have
>   to be at least 175+ years old to have been large enough saplings for
>   such modification. Has anyone checked to see if these trees are that
>   old?
>
>   On 4/12/07, Carla & Dave Hicks <daveh at psknet.com> wrote:
>> I'm not saying that humans, native or otherwise, didn't "make" such  
>> trees.  In
>> fact, it make sense that they did -- to mark things.
>>
>> However, to say that nature could not do it is contrary to my  
>> experience.
>>
>> I have seen far younger trees in such formations.  I have seen spring  
>> poles
>> (made by deadfalls, whole trees, or just tops) survive in a  
>> bent/arched over
>> form.  Either the main leader turns back upwards, or a branch becomes  
>> the
>> leader.  After some time, the deadfall rots away and strangely formed  
>> younger
>> tree remains.  In the north snow can do it.
>>
>> As far south as PA, deer eat the tops out of trees (or just the  
>> terminal buds
>> of the leader), often at some height off the ground -- while standing  
>> on
>> packed snow.  Even farther south the leader, or its terminal bud, can  
>> be
>> damaged by insect, wind, etc.  Again a strangely shaped tree can  
>> result.  This
>> time it can rise straight up for some distant, make a right angle  
>> turn to the
>> horizontal, run horizontally for a distance, and then make another  
>> right angle
>> turn back to the vertical.  I have cut some of these only inches in  
>> diameter
>> to make walking sticks.
>>
>> Chainsaw
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Linda Patton" <lpatton at mailer.fsu.edu>
>> To: "AT-L listserv" <at-l at backcountry.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:00 PM
>> Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>>
>>
>> Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting newspaper articles.  Here's  
>> one,
>> "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
>>
>> http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/ 
>> 166713.shtml
>>
>> ~~ eArThworm
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>
>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756 - Release Date:  
>> 4/10/2007 10:44
>> PM
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>
>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>>
>
>
>   --
>   Jim Bullard
>   http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/
>   _______________________________________________
>   AT-L Mailing List.
>
>   Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>
>   http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>    
> _______________________________________________________________________ 
> _
>   AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's  
> free from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 7
>   Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:02:47 -0400
>   From: "Jim Bullard" <jim.bullard at gmail.com>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   To: at-l at backcountry.net
>   Message-ID:
>   <f699b7710704121902r50cd62c3nd4be71deb4da7c5b at mail.gmail.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>   According to the article they have forgotten the skill due to a lack
>   of trees in Oklahoma. It does not explain the forgetting by those who
>   remained in the area so perhaps it has simply not occurred to anyone
>   to ask those still in the area but that would be a logical step in
>   researching it.
>
>   I remain skeptical. It smacks too much of the "Indian names" that  
> were
>   assigned to various locations in the Adirondacks in years past. I.E.
>   There is a plaque on the summit of Mt. Marcy explaining that its
>   original name, bestowed by the Native Americans, was Tahawus, meaning
>   "cloud splitter". That notion was debunked in 1927 in the book Peaks
>   and People of the Adirondacks by Russell M.L. Carson pp. 57-59 where
>   the author explains that the name Tahawus was the invention of a
>   newspaper writer Charles Fenno Hoffman. He had knowledge of Indian
>   languages and after a visit to the Adirondacks he dubbed the highest
>   peak Tahawus a full month after it had already been named Mt. Marcy  
> by
>   Ebenezer Emmons.
>
>   Ironically the name Tahawus is still preferred by some as its  
> supposed
>   original name despite the discrepancy in dates and the fact that the
>   Indian word applied to the mountain by Hoffman was from a Western NY
>   tribe's language, not the language of the Natives in the area of
>   Adirondacks. Romantic notions are often so appealing that people
>   ignore more mundane explanations.
>
>   In future I will be paying more attention to such trees and
>   photographing them as a matter of curiosity. Most similar trees that  
> I
>   have seen are clearly much younger than 175 or so.
>
>   On 4/12/07, pudscrawler at aol.com <pudscrawler at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't buy the idea that the trees were deformed intentionally by  
>> human
>> hands.  Even if I did though, it seems to me that a primary source of
>> information would be the Cherokee themselves.  Many eluded the US  
>> soldiers
>> who "helped" them to their new homes in Oklahoma.  Their descendants  
>> are
>> everywhere, but, as a tribe, they are located on the Cherokee  
>> reservation at
>> Cherokee, North Carolina.  They are very careful to record and  
>> preserve
>> their history.  Surely such a practice as bending tree growth for  
>> markers
>> would be common knowledge among them.  Lawdy, lawdy, why not just ask?
>>
>> Sawnie
>> (Kinnickinic)
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: jim.bullard at gmail.com
>>  To: at-l at backcountry.net
>>  Sent: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 9:17 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>>
>>
>> RE: The theory that the deformations were the result of Native
>> American 'trail marking'.
>>
>> The theory suggests that it was the Cherokees who marked their trails
>> in this way. The removal of the Cherokees from that area to Oklahoma
>> occurred 169 years ago. That means that the affected trees would have
>> to be at least 175+ years old to have been large enough saplings for
>> such modification. Has anyone checked to see if these trees are that
>> old?
>>
>> On 4/12/07, Carla & Dave Hicks <daveh at psknet.com> wrote:
>>> I'm not saying that humans, native or otherwise, didn't "make" such  
>>> trees.
>> In
>>> fact, it make sense that they did -- to mark things.
>>>
>>> However, to say that nature could not do it is contrary to my  
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> I have seen far younger trees in such formations. I have seen spring  
>>> poles
>>> (made by deadfalls, whole trees, or just tops) survive in a  
>>> bent/arched
>> over
>>> form. Either the main leader turns back upwards, or a branch becomes  
>>> the
>>> leader. After some time, the deadfall rots away and strangely formed
>> younger
>>> tree remains. In the north snow can do it.
>>>
>>> As far south as PA, deer eat the tops out of trees (or just the  
>>> terminal
>> buds
>>> of the leader), often at some height off the ground -- while  
>>> standing on
>>> packed snow. Even farther south the leader, or its terminal bud, can  
>>> be
>>> damaged by insect, wind, etc. Again a strangely shaped tree can  
>>> result.
>> This
>>> time it can rise straight up for some distant, make a right angle  
>>> turn to
>> the
>>> horizontal, run horizontally for a distance, and then make another  
>>> right
>> angle
>>> turn back to the vertical. I have cut some of these only inches in
>> diameter
>>> to make walking sticks.
>>>
>>> Chainsaw
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Linda Patton" <lpatton at mailer.fsu.edu>
>>> To: "AT-L listserv" <at-l at backcountry.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:00 PM
>>> Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>>>
>>>
>>> Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting newspaper articles. Here's  
>>> one,
>>> "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/ 
>> 166713.shtml
>>>
>>> ~~ eArThworm
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>>
>>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>>
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756 - Release Date:  
>>> 4/10/2007
>> 10:44
>>> PM
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>>
>>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Bullard
>> http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>
>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>
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>>
>>  ________________________________
>>  AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's  
>> free from
>> AOL at AOL.com.
>>
>
>
>   --
>   Jim Bullard
>   http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 8
>   Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:09:55 -0400
>   From: Felix J <athiker at smithville.net>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   Cc: at-l at backcountry.net
>   Message-ID: <461EE673.8080000 at smithville.net>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>   Jim Bullard wrote:
>
>> I remain skeptical.<<snip>>
>>
>> In future I will be paying more attention to such trees and
>> photographing them as a matter of curiosity. Most similar trees that I
>> have seen are clearly much younger than 175 or so.
>>
>
>   I'm with Jim and Chainsaw on this. If they're talking about what I  
> think
>   they're talking about (was there a picture that I mist?), I've seen  
> them
>   all sorts of places. And, not on boundary lines or marking trails. I
>   have a couple within a few hundred yards of my homestead. IF they're
>   talkin' about what I think they're talkin' about.
>
>   --
>   Felix J. McGillicuddy
>   ME-->GA '98
>   "Your Move"
>   ALT '03 KT '03
>   http://Felixhikes.tripod.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 9
>   Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:40:54 EDT
>   From: GAFenn at aol.com
>   Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   To: at-l at backcountry.net
>   Message-ID: <c5c.f981796.3350c646 at aol.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>   I grew up in Oklahoma, and trail trees are something I have known  
> about all
>   my life.
>   Check out the following article, and how to distinguish a naturally  
> occurring
>   bent tree
>   from one that was possibly done by Native Americans.
>
>   George
>
>   http://www.theozarkschronicle.com/history.htm
>
>
>
>   **************************************
>    See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 10
>   Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:46:23 -0400
>   From: "Jim Bullard" <jim.bullard at gmail.com>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   To: "Felix J" <athiker at smithville.net>
>   Cc: at-l at backcountry.net
>   Message-ID:
>   <f699b7710704130446j30007270g6d447eac21692ba5 at mail.gmail.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>   There were no pictures with the article but a quick search of Google
>   for "Indian Trail Trees" will give you several. Here's one site with
>   lots of photos <http://www.trailtree.com/Tree.htm>.
>
>   On 4/12/07, Felix J <athiker at smithville.net> wrote:
>> Jim Bullard wrote:
>>
>>> I remain skeptical.<<snip>>
>>>
>>> In future I will be paying more attention to such trees and
>>> photographing them as a matter of curiosity. Most similar trees that  
>>> I
>>> have seen are clearly much younger than 175 or so.
>>>
>>
>> I'm with Jim and Chainsaw on this. If they're talking about what I  
>> think
>> they're talking about (was there a picture that I mist?), I've seen  
>> them
>> all sorts of places. And, not on boundary lines or marking trails. I
>> have a couple within a few hundred yards of my homestead. IF they're
>> talkin' about what I think they're talkin' about.
>>
>> --
>> Felix J. McGillicuddy
>> ME-->GA '98
>> "Your Move"
>> ALT '03 KT '03
>> http://Felixhikes.tripod.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>
>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>>
>
>
>   --
>   Jim Bullard
>   http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 11
>   Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 08:54:35 -0400
>   From: Pete Randrup <hardhead at 1956.usna.com>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   To: Appalachian Trail list 'AT-L <at-l at backcountry.net>
>   Message-ID: <d00c12b59ece3964636cb21e2ae98b8b at 1956.usna.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>   No, I don't believe that the Indian natives had cause to
>   mark their properties.  Rather than being focused on the
>   individual, they were a commune.  The land and its
>   fruits were community land, community tended, and
>   community harvested.
>
>   Those rock walls came about when individual farmer
>   was tending his own fields  Then it was only a case of
>   Yankee principle
>
>   The rocks were at hand . . . actually in the way.  So the
>   Yankee farmers removed them from their otherwise
>   tillable land and used them as walls that enclosed their
>   properties.
>
>   It goes along with the New England spirit:
>
>      Use it up
>      Wear it out
>      Make it do
>      Do without
>
>
>   Have a nice day -- Spot a tunnel of bent tree trunks.
>
>
>   DewDrop
>
>   On Apr 12, 2007, at 16:32, Sanne aka Ready wrote:
>
>> I don't recall my source for this, but I recall
>> being told that (especially in the NY-CT area)
>> farmers used this practice to indicate the
>> boundaries of their lands. Cheaper than fences I
>> guess. Whether it's a practice learned from
>> Native Americans or carried over from the "Old
>> Country," I do not know.
>>
>> Ready
>>
>> --- Walt Daniels <wdlists at optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>  Maybe the north is different but I see many
>>> such trees, frequently under 6
>>> inches, so clearly not very old and unlikely to
>>> be caused by Native
>>> Americans.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: at-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>>> [mailto:at-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On
>>> Behalf Of Navigator
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:42 PM
>>> To: 'Linda Patton'; 'AT-L listserv'
>>> Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>>>
>>> That's very interesting. I've seen many trees
>>> like that along trails and
>>> noted it in my notes, but didn't know why they
>>> were bent so oddly ...
>>> typically pines but sometimes cypresses. Nice
>>> to know there is a story
>>> behind it! I have an opportunity next month to
>>> take a hike with a Seminole
>>> herbalist down on the Big Cypress Reservation
>>> and will make a point of
>>> asking about the trees.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Navigator
>>>
>>> www.floridahikes.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: at-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>>> [mailto:at-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On
>>> Behalf Of Linda Patton
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:01 PM
>>> To: AT-L listserv
>>> Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>>>
>>> Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting
>>> newspaper articles.  Here's one,
>>> "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/
>> 166713.shtml
>>>
>>>     ~~ eArThworm
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>>
>>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>>
>>>
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756
>>> - Release Date: 4/10/2007
>>> 10:44 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>>
>>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>>
>>>
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________ 
>> _
>> _____________
>> Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast
>> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
>> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>
>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>
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>>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 12
>   Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:08:21 -0400
>   From: "Lilla Thompson" <lthompson at hollins.edu>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   To: "Felix J" <athiker at smithville.net>
>   Cc: at-l at backcountry.net
>   Message-ID:
>    
> <40E89EE7E97F9B46B84F0370E87E00B335D72E at graphite.hollinsnt.hollins.edu>
>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>   There are pictures if you go to the link provided on the site:
>
>   www.mountainstewards.org
>
>
>   I'm with Jim and Chainsaw on this. If they're talking about what I  
> think
>
>   they're talking about (was there a picture that I mist?), I've seen  
> them
>
>   all sorts of places. And, not on boundary lines or marking trails. I
>   have a couple within a few hundred yards of my homestead. IF they're
>   talkin' about what I think they're talkin' about.
>
>   --
>   Felix J. McGillicuddy
>   ME-->GA '98
>   "Your Move"
>   ALT '03 KT '03
>   http://Felixhikes.tripod.com/
>
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   AT-L Mailing List.
>
>   Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>
>   http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 13
>   Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:46:11 -0400
>   From: "Jim Bullard" <jim.bullard at gmail.com>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
>   To: "GAFenn at aol.com" <GAFenn at aol.com>
>   Cc: at-l at backcountry.net
>   Message-ID:
>   <f699b7710704130646u3bdad1rfd6d78c0deebe104 at mail.gmail.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>   Out of curiosity, are you of Native American descent? If yes, did you
>   learn this as part of your tribe's oral history?
>
>   On 4/13/07, GAFenn at aol.com <GAFenn at aol.com> wrote:
>> I grew up in Oklahoma, and trail trees are something I have known  
>> about all
>> my life.
>> Check out the following article, and how to distinguish a naturally  
>> occurring
>> bent tree
>> from one that was possibly done by Native Americans.
>>
>> George
>>
>> http://www.theozarkschronicle.com/history.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> **************************************
>>  See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT-L Mailing List.
>>
>> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>>
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>>
>
>
>   --
>   Jim Bullard
>   http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 14
>   Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:47:13 -0400
>   From: Felix J <athiker at smithville.net>
>   Subject: [at-l] Hickory
>   To: AT-list <at-l at backcountry.net>
>   Message-ID: <461F89E1.5090205 at smithville.net>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>   "If you find me leanin' dead against a hickory tree, don't feel sorry
>   for me. That's the way to go."
>
>   Peb Miller
>   11/22/1916- 4/13/2007
>
>   --
>   Felix J. McGillicuddy
>   ME-->GA '98
>   "Your Move"
>   ALT '03 KT '03
>   http://Felixhikes.tripod.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 15
>   Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:05:57 -0700 (PDT)
>   From: Sloetoe <sloetoe at yahoo.com>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] Hickory
>   To: Felix J <athiker at smithville.net>, AT-list <at-l at backcountry.net>
>   Message-ID: <618752.56141.qm at web35205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>   --- Felix J <athiker at smithville.net> wrote:
>
>> "If you find me leanin' dead against a hickory tree,
>> don't feel sorry for me. That's the way to go."
>>
>> Peb Miller
>> 11/22/1916- 4/13/2007
>
>   ### A sage, Fee.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   Message: 16
>   Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
>   From: Kent Gardam <kent_gardam at yahoo.com>
>   Subject: Re: [at-l] Hickory
>   To: AT-list <at-l at backcountry.net>
>   Message-ID: <240793.12514.qm at web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>   You gaughta watch out for those Friday the XIIIths, they'll get you  
> everytime.
>
>   Felix J <athiker at smithville.net> wrote:  "If you find me leanin'  
> dead against a hickory tree, don't feel sorry
>   for me. That's the way to go."
>
>   Peb Miller
>   11/22/1916- 4/13/2007
>
>   --
>   Felix J. McGillicuddy
>   ME-->GA '98
>   "Your Move"
>   ALT '03 KT '03
>   http://Felixhikes.tripod.com/
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   AT-L Mailing List.
>
>   Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>
>   http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   AT-L Mailing List.
>
>
>   Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
>
>   http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
>   End of at-l Digest, Vol 42, Issue 13
>   ************************************
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>
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