[at-l] special trees

Janie janiek at bellsouth.net
Fri Apr 13 17:17:36 CDT 2007


I grew up in Georgia and I've always known, from my great grandfather on, about the trail marking trees in North Georgia (as seen on trailtrees.com).  Saplings were "bent" with a rock (guess a heavy one at that) and tied to the tree with a rope or similar material so the tree would grow pointing the way for future generations. Although this does, naturally, occur in nature, at least in my part of USA, the mature trail-marking trees are there for a specific area.  It's also fun looking for them, wondering about when they were first used to mark the way somewhere.

JanieK aka Cohutta
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: at-l-request at backcountry.net 
  To: at-l at backcountry.net 
  Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 1:00 PM
  Subject: at-l Digest, Vol 42, Issue 13


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  Today's Topics:

     1. Backcountry Caretakers Wanted for AMC employment this summer.
        (Casey Horrigan)
     2. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Sanne aka Ready)
     3. Suggestions please -- pillow for Marmont Bag . . . .
        (Pete Randrup)
     4. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Carla & Dave Hicks)
     5. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Jim Bullard)
     6. Re: "Special" AT trees... (pudscrawler at aol.com)
     7. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Jim Bullard)
     8. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Felix J)
     9. "Special" AT trees... (GAFenn at aol.com)
    10. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Jim Bullard)
    11. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Pete Randrup)
    12. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Lilla Thompson)
    13. Re: "Special" AT trees... (Jim Bullard)
    14. Hickory (Felix J)
    15. Re: Hickory (Sloetoe)
    16. Re: Hickory (Kent Gardam)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Message: 1
  Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:10:06 -0400
  From: "Casey Horrigan" <newcasey at gmail.com>
  Subject: [at-l] Backcountry Caretakers Wanted for AMC employment this
  summer.
  To: at-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID:
  <c0a6b45a0704121010w4f1cbaddpdc7d1a5d9f75342c at mail.gmail.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

  Hey everyone.

  One of my first tasks as the new Backcountry Field Coordinator this
  summer is to help finish hiring for the upcoming Caretaker season.
  Currently there are two positions open to fill, and currently we do
  not have a very big applicant pool of qualified or experienced
  candidates. If you would be interested in working as a Backcountry
  Caretaker and would like to apply for a position, please email me or
  fill out a seasonal application form at:

  AMC Seasonal Employment:
  www.outdoors.org/employment

  Please note that this is for managing a Backcountry Campsite/Shelter
  with a focus on backcountry resource management, public education, and
  trail/campsite rehabilitation. This is not a hut job nor is it a
  hospitality position. The season starts on May 30 and goes through
  September 10, with a possibility of continued employment until end of
  September. We are currently only looking for applicatants who's
  availability matches that.

  Here is the job description, please contact me if you have any questions:

  AMC Backcountry Campsite & Shelter Caretaker/Rotator

  Summary:

  In cooperation with the White Mountain National Forest and the State
  of Maine, the AMC places caretakers at the most heavily used
  backcountry shelters and tentsites in the White and Mahoosuc
  Mountains. In 2006 the following nine of the fourteen sites maintained
  by the AMC will be staffed with a caretaker: Kinsman Pond, Liberty
  Springs, Garfield Ridge, 13 Falls, Guyot, Ethan Pond, Nauman, Imp, and
  Speck Pond. Most sites are on or near the Appalachian Trail.

  Caretakers are placed on site as a result of a site's popularity and
  resource sensitivity to recreational impacts. Staffed sites see
  between 1,000 and 2,200 overnight visitors in the summer months with
  system wide use averaging 14,000 visitors. Caretakers are placed on
  site to provide exemplary resource protection and public service,
  which is accomplished through information and education, campsite
  management and rehabilitation, trail maintenance, human waste
  management, and search and rescue.

  Permanent caretakers stay on site for 10 or 11 days at a time followed
  by 3 or 4 days off. Home is a 10 x 12 foot canvas wall tent with all
  tools, supplies, and equipment provided. Rotator positions cover three
  sites when the regular caretakers are on days off, traveling from
  location to location. Reporting to the Shelter Supervisor, the Shelter
  Caretaker's responsibilities include but are not limited to:

  - Provide information and education to trail and campsite users
  - Perform campsite and shelter maintenance, rehabilitation, and supervision
  - Maintain nearby trails
  - Maintain human waste composting system
  - Collect overnight fees from users and post daily weather forecast
  - Generate daily use and work reports, and year end report
  - Protect water supply
  - Supervise and lead volunteers as needed
  - Address special problems as they arise at site
  - Promote Leave No Trace ethics

  Required skills:

  - Strong commitment to resource protection and public service
  - Emotional maturity and self motivation
  - Ability to work and live alone in remote setting with minimal supervision
  - Excellent education and interpersonal skills and ability to
  communicate with diverse groups of hikers
  - Extensive backpacking experience and ability to carry heavy loads
  long distances over rugged terrain
  - Strong commitment to backcountry stewardship and Leave No Trace ethics (over)

  Desired skills:

  - Knowledge of AMC and White Mountains
  - Wilderness First Aid certification
  - Trail work experience
  - Public service experience
  - Education experience


  Season:

  Summer: Third week of May through August or late September
  Fall: Mid-August through late September

  -- 
  Blog: www.ForestAndCrag.com
  Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/newcasey

  "One may have a blazing hearth in one's soul, and yet no one ever
  comes to sit by it." - Vincent van Gogh


  ------------------------------

  Message: 2
  Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:32:23 -0700 (PDT)
  From: Sanne aka Ready <readyhiker at yahoo.com>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  To: Walt Daniels <wdlists at optonline.net>, 'AT-L listserv'
  <at-l at backcountry.net>
  Message-ID: <338258.85799.qm at web32613.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  I don't recall my source for this, but I recall
  being told that (especially in the NY-CT area)
  farmers used this practice to indicate the
  boundaries of their lands. Cheaper than fences I
  guess. Whether it's a practice learned from
  Native Americans or carried over from the "Old
  Country," I do not know.

  Ready

  --- Walt Daniels <wdlists at optonline.net> wrote:

  >  Maybe the north is different but I see many
  > such trees, frequently under 6
  > inches, so clearly not very old and unlikely to
  > be caused by Native
  > Americans.
  > 
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: at-l-bounces at backcountry.net
  > [mailto:at-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On
  > Behalf Of Navigator
  > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:42 PM
  > To: 'Linda Patton'; 'AT-L listserv'
  > Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  > 
  > That's very interesting. I've seen many trees
  > like that along trails and
  > noted it in my notes, but didn't know why they
  > were bent so oddly ...
  > typically pines but sometimes cypresses. Nice
  > to know there is a story
  > behind it! I have an opportunity next month to
  > take a hike with a Seminole
  > herbalist down on the Big Cypress Reservation
  > and will make a point of
  > asking about the trees. 
  > 
  > Cheers, Navigator
  > 
  > www.floridahikes.com
  > 
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: at-l-bounces at backcountry.net
  > [mailto:at-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On
  > Behalf Of Linda Patton
  > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:01 PM
  > To: AT-L listserv
  > Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  > 
  > Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting
  > newspaper articles.  Here's one,
  > "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
  > 
  >
  http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/166713.shtml
  > 
  >     ~~ eArThworm
  >  
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > AT-L Mailing List.  
  > 
  > Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
  > 
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  > 
  > --
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  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756
  > - Release Date: 4/10/2007
  > 10:44 PM
  > 
  > 
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  > AT-L Mailing List.  
  > 
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  > 



         
  ____________________________________________________________________________________
  Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast
  with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather


  ------------------------------

  Message: 3
  Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 18:55:19 -0400
  From: Pete Randrup <hardhead at 1956.usna.com>
  Subject: [at-l] Suggestions please -- pillow for Marmont Bag . . . .
  To: Appalachian Trail list 'AT-L <at-l at backcountry.net>
  Message-ID: <033e4b872785dba114732853eebc943e at 1956.usna.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

  I've messed around with a good pillow for my bag-time,
  but haven't zeroed in on a sat one yet.

  Any suggestions, direct or via list.


  DewDrop
  Baltimore



  ------------------------------

  Message: 4
  Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:31:20 -0400
  From: "Carla & Dave Hicks" <daveh at psknet.com>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  To: "Linda Patton" <lpatton at mailer.fsu.edu>, "AT-L listserv"
  <at-l at backcountry.net>
  Message-ID: <009b01c77d63$9a3a3a10$2e01a8c0 at DELLB110>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

  I'm not saying that humans, native or otherwise, didn't "make" such trees.  In 
  fact, it make sense that they did -- to mark things.

  However, to say that nature could not do it is contrary to my experience.

  I have seen far younger trees in such formations.  I have seen spring poles 
  (made by deadfalls, whole trees, or just tops) survive in a bent/arched over 
  form.  Either the main leader turns back upwards, or a branch becomes the 
  leader.  After some time, the deadfall rots away and strangely formed younger 
  tree remains.  In the north snow can do it.

  As far south as PA, deer eat the tops out of trees (or just the terminal buds 
  of the leader), often at some height off the ground -- while standing on 
  packed snow.  Even farther south the leader, or its terminal bud, can be 
  damaged by insect, wind, etc.  Again a strangely shaped tree can result.  This 
  time it can rise straight up for some distant, make a right angle turn to the 
  horizontal, run horizontally for a distance, and then make another right angle 
  turn back to the vertical.  I have cut some of these only inches in diameter 
  to make walking sticks.

  Chainsaw


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Linda Patton" <lpatton at mailer.fsu.edu>
  To: "AT-L listserv" <at-l at backcountry.net>
  Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:00 PM
  Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...


  Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting newspaper articles.  Here's one,
  "Group looks to map 'trail trees":

  http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/166713.shtml

  ~~ eArThworm
  _______________________________________________
  AT-L Mailing List.

  Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:

  http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l


  -- 
  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756 - Release Date: 4/10/2007 10:44 
  PM




  ------------------------------

  Message: 5
  Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:17:40 -0400
  From: "Jim Bullard" <jim.bullard at gmail.com>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  To: at-l <at-l at backcountry.net>
  Message-ID:
  <f699b7710704121817t2147b792i6ca24d15e96b51c9 at mail.gmail.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

  RE: The theory that the deformations were the result of Native
  American 'trail marking'.

  The theory suggests that it was the Cherokees who marked their trails
  in this way. The removal of the Cherokees from that area to Oklahoma
  occurred 169 years ago. That means that the affected trees would have
  to be at least 175+ years old to have been large enough saplings for
  such modification. Has anyone checked to see if these trees are that
  old?

  On 4/12/07, Carla & Dave Hicks <daveh at psknet.com> wrote:
  > I'm not saying that humans, native or otherwise, didn't "make" such trees.  In
  > fact, it make sense that they did -- to mark things.
  >
  > However, to say that nature could not do it is contrary to my experience.
  >
  > I have seen far younger trees in such formations.  I have seen spring poles
  > (made by deadfalls, whole trees, or just tops) survive in a bent/arched over
  > form.  Either the main leader turns back upwards, or a branch becomes the
  > leader.  After some time, the deadfall rots away and strangely formed younger
  > tree remains.  In the north snow can do it.
  >
  > As far south as PA, deer eat the tops out of trees (or just the terminal buds
  > of the leader), often at some height off the ground -- while standing on
  > packed snow.  Even farther south the leader, or its terminal bud, can be
  > damaged by insect, wind, etc.  Again a strangely shaped tree can result.  This
  > time it can rise straight up for some distant, make a right angle turn to the
  > horizontal, run horizontally for a distance, and then make another right angle
  > turn back to the vertical.  I have cut some of these only inches in diameter
  > to make walking sticks.
  >
  > Chainsaw
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "Linda Patton" <lpatton at mailer.fsu.edu>
  > To: "AT-L listserv" <at-l at backcountry.net>
  > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:00 PM
  > Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  >
  >
  > Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting newspaper articles.  Here's one,
  > "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
  >
  > http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/166713.shtml
  >
  > ~~ eArThworm
  > _______________________________________________
  > AT-L Mailing List.
  >
  > Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
  >
  > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
  >
  >
  > --
  > No virus found in this incoming message.
  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756 - Release Date: 4/10/2007 10:44
  > PM
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > AT-L Mailing List.
  >
  > Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
  >
  > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
  >


  -- 
  Jim Bullard
  http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/


  ------------------------------

  Message: 6
  Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:36:01 -0400
  From: pudscrawler at aol.com
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  To: jim.bullard at gmail.com, at-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID: <8C94B833A41A465-9D8-12DB at MBLK-M01.sysops.aol.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

  I don't buy the idea that the trees were deformed intentionally by human hands.  Even if I did though, it seems to me that a primary source of information would be the Cherokee themselves.  Many eluded the US soldiers who "helped" them to their new homes in Oklahoma.  Their descendants are everywhere, but, as a tribe, they are located on the Cherokee reservation at Cherokee, North Carolina.  They are very careful to record and preserve their history.  Surely such a practice as bending tree growth for markers would be common knowledge among them.  Lawdy, lawdy, why not just ask?
   
  Sawnie
  (Kinnickinic)
   
   
  -----Original Message-----
  From: jim.bullard at gmail.com
  To: at-l at backcountry.net
  Sent: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 9:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...


  RE: The theory that the deformations were the result of Native
  American 'trail marking'.

  The theory suggests that it was the Cherokees who marked their trails
  in this way. The removal of the Cherokees from that area to Oklahoma
  occurred 169 years ago. That means that the affected trees would have
  to be at least 175+ years old to have been large enough saplings for
  such modification. Has anyone checked to see if these trees are that
  old?

  On 4/12/07, Carla & Dave Hicks <daveh at psknet.com> wrote:
  > I'm not saying that humans, native or otherwise, didn't "make" such trees.  In
  > fact, it make sense that they did -- to mark things.
  >
  > However, to say that nature could not do it is contrary to my experience.
  >
  > I have seen far younger trees in such formations.  I have seen spring poles
  > (made by deadfalls, whole trees, or just tops) survive in a bent/arched over
  > form.  Either the main leader turns back upwards, or a branch becomes the
  > leader.  After some time, the deadfall rots away and strangely formed younger
  > tree remains.  In the north snow can do it.
  >
  > As far south as PA, deer eat the tops out of trees (or just the terminal buds
  > of the leader), often at some height off the ground -- while standing on
  > packed snow.  Even farther south the leader, or its terminal bud, can be
  > damaged by insect, wind, etc.  Again a strangely shaped tree can result.  This
  > time it can rise straight up for some distant, make a right angle turn to the
  > horizontal, run horizontally for a distance, and then make another right angle
  > turn back to the vertical.  I have cut some of these only inches in diameter
  > to make walking sticks.
  >
  > Chainsaw
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "Linda Patton" <lpatton at mailer.fsu.edu>
  > To: "AT-L listserv" <at-l at backcountry.net>
  > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:00 PM
  > Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  >
  >
  > Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting newspaper articles.  Here's one,
  > "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
  >
  > http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/166713.shtml
  >
  > ~~ eArThworm
  > _______________________________________________
  > AT-L Mailing List.
  >
  > Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
  >
  > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
  >
  >
  > --
  > No virus found in this incoming message.
  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756 - Release Date: 4/10/2007 10:44
  > PM
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > AT-L Mailing List.
  >
  > Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
  >
  > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
  >


  -- 
  Jim Bullard
  http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/
  _______________________________________________
  AT-L Mailing List.  

  Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:

  http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
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  ------------------------------

  Message: 7
  Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:02:47 -0400
  From: "Jim Bullard" <jim.bullard at gmail.com>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  To: at-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID:
  <f699b7710704121902r50cd62c3nd4be71deb4da7c5b at mail.gmail.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

  According to the article they have forgotten the skill due to a lack
  of trees in Oklahoma. It does not explain the forgetting by those who
  remained in the area so perhaps it has simply not occurred to anyone
  to ask those still in the area but that would be a logical step in
  researching it.

  I remain skeptical. It smacks too much of the "Indian names" that were
  assigned to various locations in the Adirondacks in years past. I.E.
  There is a plaque on the summit of Mt. Marcy explaining that its
  original name, bestowed by the Native Americans, was Tahawus, meaning
  "cloud splitter". That notion was debunked in 1927 in the book Peaks
  and People of the Adirondacks by Russell M.L. Carson pp. 57-59 where
  the author explains that the name Tahawus was the invention of a
  newspaper writer Charles Fenno Hoffman. He had knowledge of Indian
  languages and after a visit to the Adirondacks he dubbed the highest
  peak Tahawus a full month after it had already been named Mt. Marcy by
  Ebenezer Emmons.

  Ironically the name Tahawus is still preferred by some as its supposed
  original name despite the discrepancy in dates and the fact that the
  Indian word applied to the mountain by Hoffman was from a Western NY
  tribe's language, not the language of the Natives in the area of
  Adirondacks. Romantic notions are often so appealing that people
  ignore more mundane explanations.

  In future I will be paying more attention to such trees and
  photographing them as a matter of curiosity. Most similar trees that I
  have seen are clearly much younger than 175 or so.

  On 4/12/07, pudscrawler at aol.com <pudscrawler at aol.com> wrote:
  >
  > I don't buy the idea that the trees were deformed intentionally by human
  > hands.  Even if I did though, it seems to me that a primary source of
  > information would be the Cherokee themselves.  Many eluded the US soldiers
  > who "helped" them to their new homes in Oklahoma.  Their descendants are
  > everywhere, but, as a tribe, they are located on the Cherokee reservation at
  > Cherokee, North Carolina.  They are very careful to record and preserve
  > their history.  Surely such a practice as bending tree growth for markers
  > would be common knowledge among them.  Lawdy, lawdy, why not just ask?
  >
  > Sawnie
  > (Kinnickinic)
  >
  >
  >  -----Original Message-----
  >  From: jim.bullard at gmail.com
  >  To: at-l at backcountry.net
  >  Sent: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 9:17 PM
  >  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  >
  >
  > RE: The theory that the deformations were the result of Native
  > American 'trail marking'.
  >
  > The theory suggests that it was the Cherokees who marked their trails
  > in this way. The removal of the Cherokees from that area to Oklahoma
  > occurred 169 years ago. That means that the affected trees would have
  > to be at least 175+ years old to have been large enough saplings for
  > such modification. Has anyone checked to see if these trees are that
  > old?
  >
  > On 4/12/07, Carla & Dave Hicks <daveh at psknet.com> wrote:
  > > I'm not saying that humans, native or otherwise, didn't "make" such trees.
  > In
  > > fact, it make sense that they did -- to mark things.
  > >
  > > However, to say that nature could not do it is contrary to my experience.
  > >
  > > I have seen far younger trees in such formations. I have seen spring poles
  > > (made by deadfalls, whole trees, or just tops) survive in a bent/arched
  > over
  > > form. Either the main leader turns back upwards, or a branch becomes the
  > > leader. After some time, the deadfall rots away and strangely formed
  > younger
  > > tree remains. In the north snow can do it.
  > >
  > > As far south as PA, deer eat the tops out of trees (or just the terminal
  > buds
  > > of the leader), often at some height off the ground -- while standing on
  > > packed snow. Even farther south the leader, or its terminal bud, can be
  > > damaged by insect, wind, etc. Again a strangely shaped tree can result.
  > This
  > > time it can rise straight up for some distant, make a right angle turn to
  > the
  > > horizontal, run horizontally for a distance, and then make another right
  > angle
  > > turn back to the vertical. I have cut some of these only inches in
  > diameter
  > > to make walking sticks.
  > >
  > > Chainsaw
  > >
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: "Linda Patton" <lpatton at mailer.fsu.edu>
  > > To: "AT-L listserv" <at-l at backcountry.net>
  > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:00 PM
  > > Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  > >
  > >
  > > Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting newspaper articles. Here's one,
  > > "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
  > >
  > >
  > http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/166713.shtml
  > >
  > > ~~ eArThworm
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > AT-L Mailing List.
  > >
  > > Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
  > >
  > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
  > >
  > >
  > > --
  > > No virus found in this incoming message.
  > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756 - Release Date: 4/10/2007
  > 10:44
  > > PM
  > >
  > >
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  > > AT-L Mailing List.
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  >
  > --
  > Jim Bullard
  > http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/
  > _______________________________________________
  > AT-L Mailing List.
  >
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  -- 
  Jim Bullard
  http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/


  ------------------------------

  Message: 8
  Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:09:55 -0400
  From: Felix J <athiker at smithville.net>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  Cc: at-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID: <461EE673.8080000 at smithville.net>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

  Jim Bullard wrote:

  >I remain skeptical.<<snip>>
  >
  >In future I will be paying more attention to such trees and
  >photographing them as a matter of curiosity. Most similar trees that I
  >have seen are clearly much younger than 175 or so.
  >

  I'm with Jim and Chainsaw on this. If they're talking about what I think 
  they're talking about (was there a picture that I mist?), I've seen them 
  all sorts of places. And, not on boundary lines or marking trails. I 
  have a couple within a few hundred yards of my homestead. IF they're 
  talkin' about what I think they're talkin' about.

  -- 
  Felix J. McGillicuddy
  ME-->GA '98
  "Your Move"
  ALT '03 KT '03
  http://Felixhikes.tripod.com/






  ------------------------------

  Message: 9
  Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:40:54 EDT
  From: GAFenn at aol.com
  Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  To: at-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID: <c5c.f981796.3350c646 at aol.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

  I grew up in Oklahoma, and trail trees are something I have known about all 
  my life.
  Check out the following article, and how to distinguish a naturally occurring 
  bent tree
  from one that was possibly done by Native Americans.

  George

  http://www.theozarkschronicle.com/history.htm



  **************************************
   See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


  ------------------------------

  Message: 10
  Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:46:23 -0400
  From: "Jim Bullard" <jim.bullard at gmail.com>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  To: "Felix J" <athiker at smithville.net>
  Cc: at-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID:
  <f699b7710704130446j30007270g6d447eac21692ba5 at mail.gmail.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

  There were no pictures with the article but a quick search of Google
  for "Indian Trail Trees" will give you several. Here's one site with
  lots of photos <http://www.trailtree.com/Tree.htm>.

  On 4/12/07, Felix J <athiker at smithville.net> wrote:
  > Jim Bullard wrote:
  >
  > >I remain skeptical.<<snip>>
  > >
  > >In future I will be paying more attention to such trees and
  > >photographing them as a matter of curiosity. Most similar trees that I
  > >have seen are clearly much younger than 175 or so.
  > >
  >
  > I'm with Jim and Chainsaw on this. If they're talking about what I think
  > they're talking about (was there a picture that I mist?), I've seen them
  > all sorts of places. And, not on boundary lines or marking trails. I
  > have a couple within a few hundred yards of my homestead. IF they're
  > talkin' about what I think they're talkin' about.
  >
  > --
  > Felix J. McGillicuddy
  > ME-->GA '98
  > "Your Move"
  > ALT '03 KT '03
  > http://Felixhikes.tripod.com/
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > AT-L Mailing List.
  >
  > Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
  >
  > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
  >


  -- 
  Jim Bullard
  http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/


  ------------------------------

  Message: 11
  Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 08:54:35 -0400
  From: Pete Randrup <hardhead at 1956.usna.com>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  To: Appalachian Trail list 'AT-L <at-l at backcountry.net>
  Message-ID: <d00c12b59ece3964636cb21e2ae98b8b at 1956.usna.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

  No, I don't believe that the Indian natives had cause to
  mark their properties.  Rather than being focused on the
  individual, they were a commune.  The land and its
  fruits were community land, community tended, and
  community harvested.

  Those rock walls came about when individual farmer
  was tending his own fields  Then it was only a case of
  Yankee principle

  The rocks were at hand . . . actually in the way.  So the
  Yankee farmers removed them from their otherwise
  tillable land and used them as walls that enclosed their
  properties.

  It goes along with the New England spirit:

     Use it up
     Wear it out
     Make it do
     Do without


  Have a nice day -- Spot a tunnel of bent tree trunks.


  DewDrop

  On Apr 12, 2007, at 16:32, Sanne aka Ready wrote:

  > I don't recall my source for this, but I recall
  > being told that (especially in the NY-CT area)
  > farmers used this practice to indicate the
  > boundaries of their lands. Cheaper than fences I
  > guess. Whether it's a practice learned from
  > Native Americans or carried over from the "Old
  > Country," I do not know.
  >
  > Ready
  >
  > --- Walt Daniels <wdlists at optonline.net> wrote:
  >
  >>  Maybe the north is different but I see many
  >> such trees, frequently under 6
  >> inches, so clearly not very old and unlikely to
  >> be caused by Native
  >> Americans.
  >>
  >> -----Original Message-----
  >> From: at-l-bounces at backcountry.net
  >> [mailto:at-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On
  >> Behalf Of Navigator
  >> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:42 PM
  >> To: 'Linda Patton'; 'AT-L listserv'
  >> Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  >>
  >> That's very interesting. I've seen many trees
  >> like that along trails and
  >> noted it in my notes, but didn't know why they
  >> were bent so oddly ...
  >> typically pines but sometimes cypresses. Nice
  >> to know there is a story
  >> behind it! I have an opportunity next month to
  >> take a hike with a Seminole
  >> herbalist down on the Big Cypress Reservation
  >> and will make a point of
  >> asking about the trees.
  >>
  >> Cheers, Navigator
  >>
  >> www.floridahikes.com
  >>
  >> -----Original Message-----
  >> From: at-l-bounces at backcountry.net
  >> [mailto:at-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On
  >> Behalf Of Linda Patton
  >> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:01 PM
  >> To: AT-L listserv
  >> Subject: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  >>
  >> Debbie Gilbert writes some interesting
  >> newspaper articles.  Here's one,
  >> "Group looks to map 'trail trees":
  >>
  >>
  > http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070411/localnews/ 
  > 166713.shtml
  >>
  >>     ~~ eArThworm
  >>
  >>
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> AT-L Mailing List.
  >>
  >> Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
  >>
  >>
  > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
  >>
  >>
  >> --
  >> No virus found in this incoming message.
  >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  >> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/756
  >> - Release Date: 4/10/2007
  >> 10:44 PM
  >>
  >>
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> AT-L Mailing List.
  >>
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  >>
  >>
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  >>
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > _______________________________________________________________________ 
  > _____________
  > Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast
  > with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
  > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
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  > AT-L Mailing List.
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  >



  ------------------------------

  Message: 12
  Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:08:21 -0400
  From: "Lilla Thompson" <lthompson at hollins.edu>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  To: "Felix J" <athiker at smithville.net>
  Cc: at-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID:
  <40E89EE7E97F9B46B84F0370E87E00B335D72E at graphite.hollinsnt.hollins.edu>

  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

  There are pictures if you go to the link provided on the site:  

  www.mountainstewards.org 


  I'm with Jim and Chainsaw on this. If they're talking about what I think

  they're talking about (was there a picture that I mist?), I've seen them

  all sorts of places. And, not on boundary lines or marking trails. I 
  have a couple within a few hundred yards of my homestead. IF they're 
  talkin' about what I think they're talkin' about.

  -- 
  Felix J. McGillicuddy
  ME-->GA '98
  "Your Move"
  ALT '03 KT '03
  http://Felixhikes.tripod.com/




  _______________________________________________
  AT-L Mailing List.  

  Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:

  http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l


  ------------------------------

  Message: 13
  Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:46:11 -0400
  From: "Jim Bullard" <jim.bullard at gmail.com>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] "Special" AT trees...
  To: "GAFenn at aol.com" <GAFenn at aol.com>
  Cc: at-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID:
  <f699b7710704130646u3bdad1rfd6d78c0deebe104 at mail.gmail.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

  Out of curiosity, are you of Native American descent? If yes, did you
  learn this as part of your tribe's oral history?

  On 4/13/07, GAFenn at aol.com <GAFenn at aol.com> wrote:
  > I grew up in Oklahoma, and trail trees are something I have known about all
  > my life.
  > Check out the following article, and how to distinguish a naturally occurring
  > bent tree
  > from one that was possibly done by Native Americans.
  >
  > George
  >
  > http://www.theozarkschronicle.com/history.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > **************************************
  >  See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
  > _______________________________________________
  > AT-L Mailing List.
  >
  > Go here to unsubscribe or change your options:
  >
  > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
  >


  -- 
  Jim Bullard
  http://jims-ramblings.blogspot.com/


  ------------------------------

  Message: 14
  Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:47:13 -0400
  From: Felix J <athiker at smithville.net>
  Subject: [at-l] Hickory
  To: AT-list <at-l at backcountry.net>
  Message-ID: <461F89E1.5090205 at smithville.net>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

  "If you find me leanin' dead against a hickory tree, don't feel sorry 
  for me. That's the way to go."

  Peb Miller
  11/22/1916- 4/13/2007

  -- 
  Felix J. McGillicuddy
  ME-->GA '98
  "Your Move"
  ALT '03 KT '03
  http://Felixhikes.tripod.com/





  ------------------------------

  Message: 15
  Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:05:57 -0700 (PDT)
  From: Sloetoe <sloetoe at yahoo.com>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] Hickory
  To: Felix J <athiker at smithville.net>, AT-list <at-l at backcountry.net>
  Message-ID: <618752.56141.qm at web35205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  --- Felix J <athiker at smithville.net> wrote:

  > "If you find me leanin' dead against a hickory tree,
  > don't feel sorry for me. That's the way to go."
  > 
  > Peb Miller
  > 11/22/1916- 4/13/2007

  ### A sage, Fee.







  ------------------------------

  Message: 16
  Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
  From: Kent Gardam <kent_gardam at yahoo.com>
  Subject: Re: [at-l] Hickory
  To: AT-list <at-l at backcountry.net>
  Message-ID: <240793.12514.qm at web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  You gaughta watch out for those Friday the XIIIths, they'll get you everytime.

  Felix J <athiker at smithville.net> wrote:  "If you find me leanin' dead against a hickory tree, don't feel sorry 
  for me. That's the way to go."

  Peb Miller
  11/22/1916- 4/13/2007

  -- 
  Felix J. McGillicuddy
  ME-->GA '98
  "Your Move"
  ALT '03 KT '03
  http://Felixhikes.tripod.com/



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